116-Understanding the Soil Food Web, with Dr. Elaine Ingham

| Podcast, Prepare

Are you ready to get your garden geek on? In today’s episode we’re diving into the deep end on the subject of soil – specifically, understanding the soil food web. If you’ve ever told anyone that you “like to play in the dirt” to describe your love of gardening, I’m willing to bet that this episode will have you saying “I like to play in aerobic soil.” instead.

Our guide for this tour through the amazing world living and dying beneath the soil surface is Dr. Elaine Ingham. She is a pioneer in the world of soil biology. Renowned throughout the world for her soil food web insight and research, Elaine has worked with some of the most prestigious organizations in the horticultural industry – including the Rodale Institute.

In 1996, Elaine founded her own business, Soil Food Web Inc., which has expanded from a focus on consultation to include a number of educational programs and consultant training.

Today’s episode is the first in a two-part series. Next week, the conversation continues with a focus on compost and compost tea as tools for improving soil biology in your garden.

Elaine says soil is all about life, and by the end of this series, you’ll look at your garden in an entirely new way.

Is it Dead or Alive?

So, what is the difference between dirt and soil? Well, soil is more than just minerals and organic matter. It’s alive with millions of microorganisms and larger creatures; like earthworms, beetles and grubs.

All of those organisms – most of which are beneficial to the garden – require oxygen to live, which is one of the reasons truly healthy soil is light and fluffy. That porosity allows for plenty of oxygen molecules which sustain life.

The soil food web is made up of fungi and bacteria, which are preyed upon by protozoa, nematodes, micro-arthropods, and other larger organisms – and there are many species of each of these creatures. The population and ratio of microbes within your soil will be very different from the ratio in the soil of another gardener; because each of these organisms is, in large part, controlled by the plants being grown.

For example, soil with a significant weed problem contains a high ratio of bacteria. Grassland areas harbor a higher number of fungi under the surface. The soil in a healthy orchard contains ten times more fungi than bacteria, and the fungal ratio in conifer forests is higher still. The correlation between plant life and soil biology is striking.


Dr. Elaine Ingham and the soil food web

Dr. Elaine Ingham has been working in soil science for four decades, and her studies in the relationships between soil biology and plant life are fascinating. (photo: Silverman Studios)


Dirt, on the other hand, is sterile. It’s made up of minerals – clay, silt, sand – and, at best, a small amount of organic matter as well as disease pathogens and anaerobic bacteria.

Anaerobic bacteria don’t require oxygen. Maybe you’ve always thought that compacted soil is detrimental because it inhibits root growth? Actually, it’s the lack of oxygen which is the bigger issue. As soil becomes compacted, oxygen particles are squeezed out, killing the beneficial organisms of the soil food web which require oxygen for survival. These changes degrade soil into sterile dirt.

All of this is important because soil microorganisms hold nutrients in the soil environment, so that the nutrients can be available when your plants need them. Synthetic nutrients are engineered to be absorbed by roots in a soluble form. As the nutrients pass by, what isn’t absorbed is leached away by moving water. Whereas, the organic nutrients sustained in the soil food web remain as part of an ever-evolving cycle. No waste. No leaching.

Here’s the real kicker: The microorganisms aren’t in charge of the complex cycles of the soil food web. It’s the plants themselves which are in control of the action.

Cooking Up Their Own Nutrient Party

Plants put out “food” through their roots into the rhizosphere (the area around the root zone). That food is called an exudate, and it is eaten by the bacteria and fungi. Exudates are secretions of sugars along with a little protein and carbohydrates.

The exudates a plant secretes for bacteria and fungi don’t just differ from plant type to plant type. Each plant will put out different exudate “recipes” which are specifically designed to attract the specific species of fungi and bacteria the plant requires to perform a certain job.

That’s right – fungi and bacteria have jobs. Each species of fungi and each species of bacteria perform slightly different functions. They produce unique enzymes used to break down pebbles and other soil aggregates and mine different types of nutrients from those aggregates and the organic material in the soil.

Plants require more than just nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium for health and production. They also need calcium, boron, magnesium, and a wide host of other micronutrients. The many different microbial species extract different nutrients, however they remain sleeping or dormant until they are stimulated by the plant. The plant activates just the species it needs by secreting the specific exudates those species require.


Heavy clay soil

The heavy clay soil native to the Atlanta area may not be anaerobic, but it is easily compacted and in dire need of more organic matter and microorganisms.


Once the species of fungi and bacteria are activated, they perform their job – like mining zinc from a specific soil aggregate. The nutrients extracted by the enzymes will, ultimately, feed the plant. There’s another aspect of the cycle which needs to occur before those nutrients are available to the plant, but for the moment, let’s dive deeper into those exudates.

To provide a clearer picture of how precisely a plant engineers exudates, Elaine compares the process to cooking. Let’s say you needed to sweeten a recipe in the kitchen. You could use white sugar – or you could use honey, molasses, brown sugar, agave, etc. You could also opt to use a combination of any or all of those sweeteners – a nearly infinite number of possibilities. The same is true of the many different “sugars” a plant puts out in exudates.

What about proteins? To add protein to a recipe, we could choose chicken, milk, tofu, eggs, beef, cheese – again, the list and combination possibilities are endless. There are also numerous types of proteins secreted by plants, and each species of fungi and bacteria has a unique preference.

Hopefully, this paints a picture of the elegant complexity of the interaction that takes place between a plant and the microbes it puts to work. The exudates stimulate fungi and bacteria while also promoting reproduction to increase the population necessary for performing those very specific jobs a plant requires.

In spring, a plant is secreting a lot of exudates. It’s at that time of year that the plant is in its most active growth period – developing a robust root system and pushing out stem and foliage growth. It needs more nutrients to support so much development. Plus, the plant is storing up energy in preparation for reproductive mode.

So, a plant produces more exudates in spring to activate a fungal and bacterial population boom. Later in summer, the exudate production slows down, because the plant has diverted the focus of its energy from producing exudates (as a call for nutrients) to reproduction – setting fruit and seed.

That causes the fungi and bacteria to become dormant until they are, once again, required and stimulated by exudates. The soil food web system becomes more robust, with an increasing wealth of life in each passing year – as long as we don’t get in the way.

It’s a War Zone Down There

It’s up to the fungi and bacteria to mine nutrients in the soil, but what is the job of the protozoa, nematodes, micro-arthropods, earthworms, etc.? All of those creatures prey on and eat the fungi and bacteria, and that’s how the mined nutrients become available to plants.

Those larger microorganisms require nutrients just like plants, however the active fungi and bacteria have taken in and contain such a high concentration that the preying microorganisms excrete the nutrient overdose. It’s the nutrition-packed excrement that feeds our plants. Elaine likes to call this the Poop Loop.

All those microbes – the fungi, bacteria, protozoa, nematodes – are centralized near the root systems of plants (the rhizosphere). The soil further away from roots contains lower counts of microorganisms to process nutrients. The party is in the rhizosphere, and that means plants receive the nutrients they need – without having to expend energy to seek them out.

The plant controls the whole cycle. It knows which nutrients it needs to be mined by which species of fungi and bacteria. Those will, in turn, be eaten by microbe predators to deliver the nutrients at the doorstep of the plant’s roots. As the nutrient needs of the plant change throughout the year, the plant adjusts the microbial population by stimulating different species of bacteria and fungi to work and, ultimately, be eaten by larger organisms.



They may be all we can see sometimes, but worms are just one species in the complex soil food web population which takes its cues from and feeds plants.


Keeping It Local

Climates, plant populations and soil are different all across our planet. It turns out that the microorganism species within the soil are different too. As the makeup of the soil shifts from region to region; the microbial species uniquely able to mine that soil shift accordingly.

Those differences in soil biology don’t just vary from country to country. They are very local. After all, a Japanese maple in your garden requires a specific set of microorganism species to mine the nutrients it requires from the unique mineral make-up of your soil. That same variety of Japanese maple growing a hundred miles away must stimulate species unique to the soil makeup of that location.

So, what does that mean to the gardener? Well, it has long been known that promoting plants and beneficial insects native to our area is a good thing. Now, we are learning that we also want to promote the microorganisms which are inherent to our area in order to better improve our plant and soil health.

Unless your little corner of the world is a barren crust of dirt, it does contain some life. Your garden plants may be secreting exudates to stimulate the fungi and bacteria they need, but what if there aren’t many of those microorganisms available in the soil to go to work? Your plants may be calling for an army, but only a few platoons are in residence. In those instances, there isn’t enough soil biology to access all the nutrients your plants require.

This is why feeding the soil is so important. When you provide organic material – like compost and a layer of natural mulch – those materials not only provide a food source for the soil microbes, but they also deliver a fresh population of new fungi and bacteria to join the workforce.

Quality purchased compost and mulch products are good for the garden. They will deliver a new group of microorganisms to build your soil food web. However, remember that microbe species vary from region to region. So, compost and mulch harvested from across the country won’t be as rich in the fungi and bacteria the soil in your area needs as compost and mulch from your area – or, even better, from your own backyard.

Does that mean you shouldn’t use compost or mulch products which have been shipped to your area? Not at all. It’s still good stuff, but if you want to speed up an increase in the population of bacteria and fungi that will have the most positive impact in your garden soil, stick with a source that is as local as possible.

In Part Two of this series, we’ll explore more on making your own compost and the sometimes controversial subject of compost tea. For now, suffice it to say that your backyard compost, the shredded leaves from your neighborhood, the grass clippings from your lawn – these materials are the under-appreciated powerhouses for empowering your plants to unlock everything they need.

The Consequence of Compaction

All that life under the surface of our soil needs food and oxygen for survival. The food comes from plants and organic material, of course. The oxygen is made available when we care for the soil with a better understanding of the consequences of our actions.

Our increased urbanization has created a nasty side effect – soil compaction. Heavy equipment rolls across the landscape to tear up, haul away or haul in materials to build homes, roads and other infrastructure. It all compacts topsoil. There’s no way around that. Progress marches on, but we can take steps now to correct past harm done to soil structure.

That past damage can be significant. As soil becomes anaerobic due to compaction, the microbial life dies; and nutrients contained in the minerals are altered. For example, available nitrogen is lost as it changes to ammonia. Sulfur is lost as hydrogen sulfide. Worse still is that compaction also causes production of alcohol.

Any plant which comes into contact with even a trace amount of alcohol produced by soil compaction can’t survive. In fact, roots turn to mush when the concentration of alcohol in the soil is as low as 1 part per million.

For years, the horticultural industry thought that tilling was the answer for correcting compacted soil. These days, we know the tiller can do more harm than good. Sure, a tiller will break up compacted soil and incorporate oxygen, but that’s only a small part of the story.


Tilling damages the soil food web

Tilling may seem to provide an instant benefit, and it can make garden prep so much easier. However, it creates long term consequences to the soil food web which will impact the health of your plants in seasons to come.


First, tilling aerates only the top several inches of the surface. Everything under the depth of the blade will remain compacted and anaerobic. In fact, tilling exacerbates the compaction just below the tines. Plus, anything planted in that tilled area will be restricted from growing into that deeper, constricted layer – which means it will also be prevented access to any nutrients which do remain bound up down there.

The roots of your edible plants might not stretch down to the compacted layer, but the roots of many plants are able to go much deeper than most people – even the experts – realize. Elaine participated in a study which examined the root systems of conifer trees along the West Coast. It was found that their roots extended 250’ into the soil surface. That’s over half the length of a football field!

Actually, the root systems continued beyond 250’, but the research team didn’t have access to equipment which would allow deeper exploration. Suffice it to say that plant root systems can and will stretch deeper than some of the most advanced digging tools developed by humankind.

Another detrimental aspect of tilling is that it breaks up any existing microscopic pathways built by the organisms of the soil food web to deliver water, nutrients and oxygen. The blades of a tiller are harmful to fungi too. Although tiny, the strands of a fungus are long – relatively speaking – and can be sliced apart, reducing fungal populations. More to the point, tilling destroys about 50% of the organisms of the soil food web, according to research.

The microorganism population which requires oxygen will already be at low levels, so the last thing you want to do is further reduce the number of these good guys. Meanwhile, the only organisms thriving in the compacted layer beneath the tilled surface are the anaerobic species. Those are the bad guys – the diseases – and they will stick around long after you’ve turned off the tiller.

Harmful nematodes remain after beneficial nematodes have been destroyed. When the good guys aren’t around to consume plant exudates, the harmful nematodes will be drawn up to the meal, and that’s when they attack the roots of your plants.

Compacted soil doesn’t just come as a result of heavy equipment or garden tillers. Constant foot traffic, heavy and prolonged rain, working with soil while it’s wet – these are all ways that the soil of our landscape become compacted over time. The compaction might not be so extreme that it will kill the entire soil food web in our garden, but it will certainly reduce the microbial population.

Also important for avoiding compaction: Create specific walking paths through your garden and stick to them. Never walk in planting beds. That allows soil nearest to plant roots to remain lighter and more aerated.

So if tilling isn’t the best solution, how can compaction be corrected? A great first step is to plant a cover crop. There is a wide variety of cover crops with dense root systems able to break up compacted soil naturally. Many cover crops, like legumes, are able to absorb nutrients from the atmosphere and fix them in the soil too.

The next best step for overcoming compaction is to cover the soil surface with a layer of compost and a 2-4” layer of mulch. The microorganisms in both materials will begin to multiply while feeding on the organic materials and working them down into the surface. Over time, all of that life builds the microscopic pathways through the soil, which turn even hardpan dirt into a rich, loamy growing medium.


Your soil may not be compacted, but that doesn’t mean it’s healthy. If you’ve used any synthetic chemical treatments, those products will have had an impact on the soil food web. For example, herbicides can kill the fungi in the soil, which leads to a higher ratio of bacteria. Remember which plants prefer a high ratio of bacteria? It’s the weeds.

If you have a weed problem, your fungi to bacteria ratio is out of whack. Compost and mulch can raise the fungal population, but we’ll explore more on that in Part Two next week.

Synthetic fertilizers can also be harmful to the biology in the soil. The salts they contain are detrimental to the populations of many microorganisms. If you do need to fertilize, stick with an organic option which won’t disrupt the soil food web cycle.

Not long ago soil microorganisms were seen as unimportant. Soil science is, in many ways, still in its infancy; and there is so much more yet to learn. What is clear is that these tiny creatures play a vital role in our ecosystem.

Just like each organ in our body works together to create a healthy system; we’re learning that all the various microorganisms, nutrients and micronutrients which exist under our landscape need to work in balance for healthy plant life.


Landscape weeds

Would you like more weeds in your landscape? No problem, just encourage a higher ratio of bacteria in the soil – through compaction, application of fungicides, and a lack of organic materials from compost and mulch.


The minerals in clay and sand soils are rich in nutrients, but those exist in a form which can’t be taken up by plant roots. For example, plants can only take up nitrogen when it is in a balanced form of nitrate and ammonium. We need the soil food web to convert unavailable nitrogen (as well as all the other valuable nutrients) bound in minerals into just the form the plant needs.

Once you have a diverse and thriving population of fungal and bacterial species, you have all the players necessary to mine those bound nutrients for your plants. In fact, Elaine says that a robust soil food web will provide so much that it can eliminate the need for fertilizer altogether.

Above Ground

The soil food web also works to suppress disease, as the microorganisms consume and inhibit disease pathogens. The microbes also work in tandem with healthy plant roots to build a protective wall to prevent disease pathogens from infiltrating the roots.

But wait – there’s more! Some microorganisms in the soil climb onto the foliage and fruit of plants. The surface organisms have their own jobs to do, and plants secrete exudates from their stems, foliage, flowers, fruit, and seed pods to attract and activate these creatures.

Insects transport microbes onto plants too. Honeybees, Mason bees and all the other creatures in the garden are unwittingly transporting fungi and bacteria (some good, some not so good) as they make contact with the soil and move from plant to plant.

Many of those surface microorganisms provide additional benefits to the garden – aiding in disease suppression – but also to the gardener. They play a vital role in our digestive health. In fact, most of the microbes in our guts (which help us digest food properly) come from the surface of the foods we eat.

Just in case you needed more evidence that growing your own food (or buying from a local farmer) can have a significant impact, consider the soil food web at work above ground.

The benefits of the creatures within the soil food web are far reaching, with facets yet to be fully understood. One thing is certain – there is much more to healthy soil than most of us fully appreciate.

In Part Two of this series, Elaine and I discuss the role compost and compost tea play in feeding the soil food web. What can we do to fine tune our soil and equip our plants with the soil biology they need for optimal performance? I hope you’ll be sure to make time to catch the second half of this discussion.

Speaking of which – if you haven’t already listened in to the podcast recording, scroll to the top of the page and click the Play icon in the green bar under the page title. There is a lot to absorb here, and my discussion with Elaine offers some additional examples that may help you take it all in.

Next, I’d love to hear your biggest take-away from this podcast. Has this information caused you to view any of your garden maintenance in a new light? I hope you’ll share your insights in the Comments section below.

Links & Resources

Episode 016: Composting Guide A to Z: The Quick and Dirty on Everything Compost

Episode 063: Garden Fertilizer Basics: What to Know Before You Grow

Episode 100: Understanding Cover Crops: The Basics and Beyond, with Jack Algiere

Episode 110: Why Mulch Matters in Every Garden: What You Need to Know

Episode 117: Compost, Compost Tea and the Soil Food Web, with Dr. Elaine Ingham

joegardener Blog: No-Till Gardening: If You Love Your Soil, Ditch the Tiller

joegardener Online Academy: Master Pests, Diseases and Weeds – my newest online course! Just $47 for lifetime access.

joegardener Newsletter

joegardener Facebook

joegardener Facebook Group

joegardener Instagram

joegardenerTV YouTube

joegardener Twitter


Soil Food Web Inc.

Rodale Institute

Milorganite® – Our podcast episode sponsor and Brand Partner of

About Joe Lamp'l

Joe Lamp’l is the creator and “joe” behind joe gardener®. His lifetime passion and devotion to all things horticulture has led him to a long-time career as one of the country’s most recognized and trusted personalities in organic gardening and sustainability. That is most evident in his role as host and creator of Emmy Award-winning Growing a Greener World®, a national green-living lifestyle series on PBS currently broadcasting in its tenth season. When he’s not working in his large, raised bed vegetable garden, he’s likely planting or digging something up, or spending time with his family on their organic farm just north of Atlanta, GA.

0 Responses to “116-Understanding the Soil Food Web, with Dr. Elaine Ingham”

  • Rebecca Taillon says:

    I continue to be amazed by the timeliness and content rich podcasts. This podcast with Dr. Elaine Ingham has especially fed my soul for two reasons. One, she has spent an extensive amount of time in Oregon where I own 3 small acreage lot with irrigation in Bend OR. Two, I am getting ready to turn a section of my pasture into a crop field, literally planned for this weekend!1 hour before listening to the Podcast, I made an appointment with a local hop farmer to come out and provide a price for tilling my 0.25 acre pasture. We covered the field with a silage tarp three weeks ago and where planning to Till the dead organic matter into the soil with a 2 inch layer of compost and a few bags of chicken manure procured from the local landscaping company. This was the suggestion of a local urban gardener. Made sense to me. This podcast has me stopped in boats.I am now concerned about having the tiller come out to turn the field. Is it appropriate to till the field in this case to brake up the dead grass structures, then never till it again??? Or is tilling my field going to kill the fungi, compact the soil, and ruin my chances for success?Second, I am spending a significant amount on the compost, how do I know if it is inoculated with fungi, protozoa, nematodes, and bacteria. Compost suppliers don’t provide that information.Some say I am crazy for trying to grow eatable crops in Bend, but I have seen it done with success. Just don’t want to destroy my field right out the gate. Any advise would be helpful. Can’t wait to read more Dr. Ingham’s work.

  • Forrest Jones says:

    Joe, you know I love the soil science guests and discussions. I quit tilling years ago when I discovered Growing A Greener World. I stopped using herbicides and pesticides when I learned the collateral damage I was causing thru listening to the Joe Gardener Show. But I am puzzled about weeds being a marker of soil health. Weeds will grow in my compacted stone driveway, lawn, flower beds, garden beds, pots with all potting soil. They even sprout in my sterile seed starting mix if I don’t get the starts in the ground early, and also in my finished compost if I leave it on a pile for later use. It seems that the only place they don’t grow is the dense shade of my wooded areas. So I need Dr. Ingham to expand on that.One of the reasons I love the no till practice is because of limited time. But I will say that when I was a kid the guys with the most beautiful, bountiful gardens in the neighborhood were double dig gardeners. Can you really achieve that TD soil where you can plunge your hand up to your elbow in your lifetime without tillage?I have listened twice already and probably will a few more times, I am fascinated. I look forward to hearing the rest of the discussion as well. Thanks Joe and Dr. Ingham I didn’t mind geeking along with you at all.Forrest Jones
    Nanty Glo, Pa

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Hi, Forrest. Thank you for geeking out with us indeed! And I totally understand how this discussion likely raised as many questions as it answered. I too have listened to this conversation several times by now and I realize we need a follow up podcast (especially after next week’s show) to ask clarification questions such as the ones you raised.
    I was so enthralled by the conversation in the moment of my live discussion with Elaine, that it wasn’t until after it was long over that I realized there were many questions I should have followed up with. I’m making a list and already had these on it. If you think of any more, please let me know.
    Always great to get your comments. Thanks especially for this one!

  • Vicky says:

    Forrest and Joe if you’ve ever seen Back to Eden tours he uses wood chips and he does get down and dig up to his shoulder in beautiful soil. As for what some call weeds some are very beneficial medicinals and bring up the minerals from deep down. They all have different jobs to do some help w/compaction, bring up minerals, balance soil ph, etc. We have to stop over thinking it and just let nature do it’s job and stop trying so hard to interfer or control.

  • Forrest Jones says:

    Yes Vicki, some of the things that I pull for weeds because they come up where I don’t want them, would be good in a meadow. They would provide flowers for the pollinators and seed for the birds. But I am totally fascinated with what I am hearing/learning about soil science. I didn’t realize how little I knew about what is going on under our feet until I discovered Joe’s podcast and his guests that are so generous with sharing their lifes work with us. And yes I had no idea how deep that soil food web goes down. I am looking forward to the 2nd part with Dr. Ingham.

  • April South says:

    Great podcast. I have a newbie question after listening to the discussion on how some compost purtrefys (anaerobically?) and generates bad byproducts (alcohol, etc) rendering it bad for the garden.This is my first time making compost. How do I avoid this happening in my compost pile. I have listened to the podcast on compost and am mixing the green and brown, adding some moisture and turning it to add oxygen. Is there something else I should be doing or looking out for? Thanks for podcast!

  • Melinda says:

    This was such an AMAZING episode, I really loved it, will be listening to it again and again. I’m probably less well-informed than many listeners but I had no idea that my plants’ roots feed the organisms that ultimately feed them! It’s such a beautiful and perfect system. My plants are little gardeners! I also really did not understand about the importance of fungi in particular. The whole episode really made me think harder about the benefits of a no-dig method like Lee Reich’s–I will be making more of an effort to not disturb my soil unless absolutely necessary going forward. That said, I recently realized that some of the worms I’ve seen in my garden, which I’ve always been happy to see, are in fact the invasive and harmful Asian jumping worms! If Dr. Ingham has any thoughts on what to do about them, I’d love to know. Just destroy the ones I find? I haven’t heard of any broader approach to them at the moment. Thanks so much for all the great content you and your team provides!

  • Melinda says:

    Two other quick comments–I wish you would add a button for sharing on Instagram, there’s such a great community of gardeners there, it’s my go-to app for sharing garden stuff. Also, it would be great if there was a button for printing the show notes since there’s so much useful info in them. Thanks again!

  • Forrest Jones says:

    Hi Joe and Melinda. I heard Joe’s friend Margaret Roach mention the jumping worms a few times and I didn’t know how to identify them. Margaret just released a podcast on them that is very helpful. A little hummer for you. Two seasons ago I started noticing some really lively worms in my garden beds in Cambria County, Penna. I thought that my several seasons of trying to use healthy soil building practices was paying dividends and rewarding me with really happy, healthy, lively worms. Now I realize that they are the jumping worms. Joe I am curious if Dr. Ingham has done any studies on them yet. If they are as ravenous about consuming organic matter as I heard, I am wondering if they have any value in vermicomposting? I do not have a clue how they got in my landscape, but they must be spreading fast . Another observation, I work in Allegheny County, Penna. On several occasion while climbing dry wooded hillsides the leaves have slid away under my feet and I saw numerous worms that were just under the dry leaf litter. The reason it caught my attention is that it is so unusual to see worms in dry places. The native worms usually go deep when it is so dry. Now I realize that I have been seeing jumping worms in the forest. I can’t help but think that this is not a good thing for the hillsides that are already slide prone if these worms are going to be detrimental to the forest.

  • Melinda says:

    Hi Forrest–yes, Margaret Roach’s recent podcast is how I realized that some of my worms are the invasive, destructive kind! It also has me worrying about my usual fall ritual of mulching everything with shredded leaves, as that seems to be a favorite food of these guys. Maybe it doesn’t matter since the worms are annual, don’t overwinter, and the mulch is mostly decomposed come late spring (unless that’s due to these worms). Re your question about vermicomposting, that might be part of how they became a problem in the U.S., but I’m not sure. I read some stuff a while back that said that some varieties of worms purchased for vermicomposting could be invasive if they escaped into the garden, but I don’t recall the worm species mentioned.

  • Forrest Jones says:

    Thanks Melinda, I am just learning about these worms. I was wondering how they may have gotten here. I haven’t talked to friends in my area and neighbors yet to see if they have noticed them too. I don’t know how to recognize their cocoons yet either. Margaret also mentioned a map to track their spread that I want to see.

  • Fritz McFritz says:

    Thanks for the geeky episodes! We would love an example (or 2 or 3) of compaction-resistant plants that “can be driven over” and will spring back. Thanks again!

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    My pleasure Fritz! I will include this question and come up with some of my own for the next podcast I hope to have with Elaine Ingham in about a month.

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Thanks, Melinda. We’ll look into both and hope to have these added very soon. I appreciate your input.

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    And this is an important topic we need to address. I’ll have something for you on this by the time we talk to her again and hopefully sooner. Thanks Melinda for your kind words. I’m so glad you loved it!

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Hi April. I think it’s very hard to get your compost up to 170 degrees F if you’re turning it and keeping it moist. I’ve never encountered this being a problem and doubt you will either. If you keep doing what we’ve been teaching you, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Hi Rebecca. I saw your comment right before I had a long few weeks out of town and I am sorry I was not able to get back to you quickly. I know you were right in the middle of your project. I’m curious to know what you ended up doing?I would say a one-time tilling would be the only time you could justify the process if you wanted to work the material in immediately and being planting. However, if time were on your side, all the no-till / no-dig gardeners and farmers I’ve studied allow the material to sit thickly on the surface for about a year and plant into that, without any tilling. I’m not sure there’s a big problem in the one time tilling, especially if you are faithful in adding back lots of organic matter every year along with planting deep rooting cover crops.The compost question is tougher to tackle. Do they not have data sheets from their finished product? Many compost providers that sell in bulk have their product evaluated often so you have these kinds of answers. You could also call your State University system so find out if they offer soil testing that can give you this data. Most do. You just have to be sure to order the proper soil test so they know what to test for. You could also contact independent soil labs. You can find them in a google search.I hope this helps!

  • April South says:

    Thanks good to hear. Thanks Joe!I’m following the steps from the resource guide you wrote. I have a closed bin system that I spin and water every week. The only thing I don’t water or turn is my leaf bin. I just pile it up after grinding it for later use as mulch.https://uploads.disquscdn.chttps://uploads.disquscdn.c

  • Emma M Thompson says:

    Hi! I really enjoyed this podcast it was really informative! Dr Ingham mentions that certain fungi break down pebbles and soil as part of the natural progression of things.How long does this take? I had always assumed this matter eroded rather than was broken down.I am gardening in raised beds on concrete with a wooden bottom, so they have no access to the ground. Should I be looking to add these in periodically?If yes, how often?They were filled according to your mixture and have the components of the top soil (sand and gypsum) and some azomite!

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Glad you enjoyed this one, Emma. Erosion is part of the decomposition process of rocks and stones, and bacteria and fungi create compounds that slowly degrade mineral particles in the soil as well. It takes a very long time so if you’re asking thinking you should add some stones into your raised bed and they will be broken down by the next season, year, or even 10 years, that is not likely to happen. It’s a much longer process. So the quick answer is don’t bother adding stones or rocks for any reason, unless you’re just trying to fill some of the space. Stick with the soil and amendments.

  • Fleeky Fleeky says:

    Hi! I have two questions related to the topics of episodes 116 and 117. I hope I’m not too late to have you consider them for the follow-up episode with Dr. Ingham!It was very interesting to learn about the biology of the soil in the garden and compost, but as a person who lives in an apartment I grow my plants in containers and I make vermi-compost instead of regular compost. Considering that, my questions are:1)¿Do containers also have that kind of biology? ¿Is it possible to have such a complex and big system inside a 10 or 20 gallon container? ¿Is it possible to grow a healthy tomato or pepper plant in a container without synthetic fertilizer, just relying on the soil biology?2)¿Do vermi-compost presents the same benefits and characteristics of compost?Daniel

  • Fleeky Fleeky says:

    Hi Joe. Really looking forward to that follow-up episode with questions for Dr. Ingham. Any idea when it might be released?

  • Katie Lambert says:

    I loved this episode! Thank you so much for all of the amazing content but in left with so many questions!1. Okay so I’ve used synthetic fertilizers And pesticides in the past (last year) — what do I do THIS YEAR to start on the path back to healthy soil? Just add compost? What if my compost doesn’t have the fungi and nematodes and all the stuff??2. What are the best cover crops after the season to encourage the underground soil activity?3. If I add my chicken manure to the compost, will that be a big player in getting my soil back to health?!Thank you soooo much for this!

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Thanks, Katie. I hope to have that follow up episode with Elaine in early spring, so I’ll be adding these questions to my conversation with her. Glad you liked!

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    You’re not too late and great questions, Daniel. We’ll get these on the list. I’m sure you are not the only one wondering these things. Thanks for asking.

  • Joe Lamp'l says:

    Now shooting for early spring but we don’t have a date scheduled yet. We’re hoping to get that on the calendar very soon.

  • Fleeky Fleeky says:

    Great! Thank you Joe.

  • Fleeky Fleeky says:

    Thank you! Realy looking forward to the episode.

  • adolpheinstein says:

    I used compost teas on potted plants from .5 gal to 20 gal. with excellent results.I had found Dr. Inghams work on the utubes(I believe it was a Hawaii class 10hrs of lecture or so…) and immediately bought a microscope and made a ghetto vortex tea brewer (5gal).
    I had no worms or bugs in the plants(indoor) but the growth, health and vibrancy was simply amazing. When we sold the house, the buyers put the potted plants in the bid.????I would worry that your worm beds may be too anaerobic, but I have never had any experience with vermicompost.

  • Carol Fletcher says:

    I’d like to know what kind of microbes does anaerobic digestion create? Since there is no oxygen when this is happening it cannot create good microbes, so does it create BAD microbes??

• Leave a Comment •

Get my (FREE!) eBook
5 Steps to Your Best Garden Ever:
Why What You Do Now Matters Most!

By joining my list, you’ll also get weekly access to my gardening resource guides, eBooks, and more!

•Are you a joe gardener?•

Use the hashtag #iamajoegardener to let us know!