086-Timeless Gardening Principles, with Barbara Damrosch

| Care, Podcast

My guest this week is Barbara Damrosh. An icon in the world of gardening, Barbara began her horticultural career in the mid-1970’s and has always been driven by the desire to help others get into gardening. To that end, she published her first of many books, The Garden Primer, in 1988; and she’s spent time as a regional host of The Victory Garden and her own television show, Gardening Naturally. Needless to say, I’m excited that Barbara was able to join me to talk about some timeless gardening principles.

She and her husband, Eliot Coleman (another legend in the gardening world) have lived on their commercial, organic Four Season Farm in Maine for the past two-plus decades. I first met them a few years back when they were featured on an episode of my show, Growing a Greener World®. Gardening year-round in Zone 5b of Maine is no joke, so it was fascinating to observe their techniques for growing produce through the cold winter months.


Barbara Damrosch and Eliot Coleman

Barbara and her husband, Eliot Coleman, are legends in the world of gardening. Both have written several best-selling books, hosted garden television programs and share their expertise around the world. (photo: Courtesy of Barbara Damrosch)


Some Background

To say that these two are passionate about gardening would be an understatement. They spend each day working the farm and growing, not just food, but also flowers which Barbara gathers and sells to area distributors,.

They carved this farm out of the woods of Maine, mostly by hand. Eliot began the work when he purchased the land in 1968. Without the benefit of power equipment, he and a team of volunteers cleared the land by axe and bow saw. As a former landscaper and landscape designer, Barbara helped to shape the property beyond a vegetable farm and into an elaborate example of bloom and form. Together, they have worked with the processes of nature to create fertile soil that produces a bounty of edible crops and a vibrant landscape.

Barbara is a firm believer that you don’t need a green thumb to be a good gardener. You just need to get in there and start to do the work – get dirty and enjoy the experience. The more you garden, the better you will become at it. Mother Nature will reward your efforts.

Letting Go of Control

As a species, we are all about control, and the garden has been no exception. Historically, gardeners have worked hard to reinvent their environment – tilling, fertilizing, clearing away, and planting in. More and more, we are coming to recognize a beautiful truth: We will be more successful when we don’t strive to reinvent Mother Nature. The natural processes at work can work for us as long as we don’t work against them.

A great example is a long-held practice known as double-digging. Barbara taught about this traditional method in her books. It involves digging deep into the subsoil and then backfilling with lots of amendments to create several inches of fertile soil. I demonstrated this technique myself once several years ago on an episode of my show, Fresh from the Garden. Today, we both laugh about all the extra effort we spent which, ultimately, did arguably as much harm as good.


Four Season Farm

Barbara and Eliot garden and grow through all four seasons at their farm in Maine where they utilize high tunnels to protect vegetables from the harsh winter temperatures.


Why is this process now considered obsolete? Well, we now know that the soil food web is one of our strongest partners in the garden. There are billions of organisms within the web which process nutrients and create structure within the soil to promote aeration and drainage. By double-digging, we were disrupting the soil food web and hindering its bounty of benefits.

The same adverse effects of double-digging come as a result of tilling. Many gardeners still faithfully till their gardens each year with the belief that it’s a beneficial way to aerate the soil and incorporate amendments. Maybe you do it too? Tilling can be an option when you are first creating a garden space – if that space is overgrown or rocky, but it’s not the best option.

Ruth Stout was one of the first modern-day gardeners to realize that a no-till garden is where it’s at. She began gardening in her later years and relied on a contractor to come and till her beds each season. Well, that contractor wasn’t so reliable, and Ruth became impatient. Rather than wait for the tiller, she got fed up and resorted to covering all her beds with a thick layer of mulch. One day, Ruth discovered that layer of mulch had broken down and turned the surface into a beautiful soil. Her garden flourished, and she never looked back.

When you cover the garden and landscape beds with a good layer (around 2”) of natural mulch, that organic material will decompose and break down into the soil – thanks to the help of the organisms in the soil food web. Those organisms feed on the material and release all the nutrients held in that material, so those nutrients are available for your plant roots to take up.

The decomposition process and pathways created by the soil food web improve the texture of the soil. It can turn heavy clay or loose sand into rich, loamy earth – improving the soil’s ability to drain while also retaining a good balance of moisture for your plants.

This goes back to working with Mother Nature. After all, consider the natural process that takes place as trees drop their leaves onto the ground. When left undisturbed, those leaves are broken down by the organisms in the soil – along with other plant debris which falls on the soil surface too. Over time, those natural materials build into a rich soil which feeds all the surrounding trees and other plant life. This is the natural, regenerative cycle.

As our landscapes became urbanized; we began diligently raking up leaves, keeping our gardens tidy and getting rid of all those materials. We disrupted the opportunity for materials to break down in our environment. Our human attempt to take control and “fix” poor soil by tilling was a band-aid for the real problem.

Fortunately, we’ve learned better in recent years, and a no-till approach is catching on. More and more gardeners are realizing that we can expend less effort and have better results. By adding organic matter, like compost and natural mulch, we can feed the soil food web, which will – in turn – feed our plants. Less work – more benefit. I call that a major win-win.


Fall leaves

In nature, the soil is fed as leaves fall from the trees and break down naturally on the soil surface. Those leaves, along with other natural debris, reincorporate nutrients into the soil and improve moisture retention and drainage.


Putting the Natural Cycle – and Organic Materials – to Work

Organic matter can cure compacted soil and make it easier to work with. Soil with the proper balance of organic materials will work like a sponge. It will hold moisture, but it will release any excess. It will hold tiny pockets of air, which is critical for plant roots to breathe and remain healthy.

Fertilization is big business in gardening, but the truth is that organic materials can provide most of the nutrients your plants really need. Even pH issues and some mineral deficiencies can be improved just by putting organic matter to work in your garden.

One of my favorite materials is shredded leaves. After all, they’re free – and who doesn’t love free? Plus, putting that abundant material to work is a great way to reduce our landfills. I love to use shredded leaves as mulch on all my garden and landscape beds. Whatever I don’t get around to shredding, I just pile up and allow to break down over time. The decomposing leaves create what’s called leaf mold.

This isn’t the green funky mold of your kitchen. Leaf mold is primarily the result of fungal decomposition of the leaves into a dark, earthy-smelling material that is rich in nutrients and looks a lot like the most beautiful soil you’ve ever seen.

Compost, on the other hand, is broken down mostly through microbial activity. The microorganisms at work in the soil food web are also getting busy in your compost pile. Since both bacterial and fungal decomposition is important for healthy soil, compost and leaves are a magical combination for an easy-to-care for and abundant garden.

Let the soil food web do much of your work for you. Your plants will be the happier for it too.

When you use synthetic fertilizers in your garden, those synthetic chemicals actually inhibit the organisms in the food web and can do genuine harm to the overall health of your soil. When that happens, there are fewer nutrients in your soil for your plants. That makes them more dependent on the synthetic fertilizer. This cycle continues and, over time, your plants become – quite literally – chemically-dependent.

If you’re caught in this chemical cycle, you can turn things around, but it will take some time. Although I’ve developed what I consider to be a perfect soil recipe, you can’t create abundantly healthy soil straight out of a bag or compost pile. You can provide the proper balance of ingredients, but nature will still need time to do its thing.


Four Season Farm

Barbara and Eliot also care for a large flock of chickens and sell eggs at area farmers markets and to local distributors.


Don’t get me wrong, my soil recipe creates beautiful soil, but it’s only as I continue to add organic material through amendments and mulching that the soil food web really gets established, and my soil becomes amazing. It takes time, but my patience is rewarded with soil that was fantastic after a couple of years and only continues to get better every season.

Barbara calls soil “the precious skin of the earth.” Without soil, we wouldn’t even have life on this planet. Through development and our own foolhardy attempts at control, we do harm to our soil – but gardeners can be an enormous force for change.

Although supporting local farmers is popular and is hugely important, growing some of your own food in your own home landscape is where the greatest power lies. You will have a stronger connection with your food, will be providing a bit of habitat for pollinators and other wildlife, and improving the precious skin of your little corner of the earth.

Growing Opportunities Abound

You don’t need a farm the size of Barbara’s or mine, here at the GardenFarm™ to grow your own food. In fact, you can garden on a much smaller lot that you may realize.

A great example is succession planting. It will allow you to grow food for a longer period through the year. Interplanting is another great option – placing quick-growing vegetables amongst those which can take weeks or months to mature.

Grow vertically, like peas and beans, or plant edibles in between your landscape plants. Focus on growing vegetables which provide more bang for your space “buck.” For instance, leafy greens can be harvested as they continue to produce. Beets can be harvested for, not only their root crop, but their foliage too. Plants like melons and corn might be great, but they can dominate a lot of space for not a lot of production.


leafy greens

Leafy greens are a great choice in small spaces as they can tolerate fewer hours of daylight, and they can be harvested throughout the season.


So, don’t just plant something because you found it available for sale at the big box store. Consider your limitations and select the plants which will be best for your situation.

Maybe your struggle is that you produce more than you can eat? Well, there are probably people all around you who would love a share of your bounty – including local food pantries. Check out sites like Ample Harvest for more ideas too.

You can also get creative when it comes to storing the food you’ve grown. Most of us don’t have a root cellar these days, but we all probably have a little closet space. Many edibles can store for weeks in a cool, dark closet away from appliances which generate heat. Barbara suggests digging a space in your yard to bury a garbage can or a travel cooler. This space, sunken into the cool earth and covered with an insulated lid can mimic a root cellar, providing stable temperatures and darkness necessary to store edibles long-term.

The moral of the story: Where there’s a will, there is definitely a way.

Don’t Forget Native plants

Your power in our vast urban landscape doesn’t lie solely in the world of vegetables. Native plants play a huge role in our environment and are another way Mother Nature can work for us in our gardens.

Native plants are vital to the creatures native to our areas. They provide food and shelter which can sometimes be the difference between population survival or decline. For example, monarch butterflies rely solely on milkweed as a food source. As our natural spaces shrink and milkweed declines, so does the population of monarchs. Thanks in large part to urbanization; pollinators, frogs and much of our wildlife is at risk through habitat loss.

It’s not necessary that you grow only natives, just be mindful to incorporate some into your landscape spaces. There are far more beautiful plants native to your area than you might realize, since they aren’t readily available at your local nursery or big box store. Do a little homework. Sites like the Mt. Cuba Center can be a great resource.

Barbara shared some examples of her favorite natives – winterberry holly, oak leaf hydrangea (also my personal favorite), azalea, witch hazel, goldenrod, bee balm, mountain laurel, Joe pye weed, and spicebush. There are blueberry plants native to many areas too, and these shrubs are multiple-duty powerhouses. They produce a delicious food source, they look spectacular throughout most of the year, and they provide that all-important habitat for wildlife.


timeless garden principles

This amphibious guy needs some untidy spaces in the landscape for his survival. These creatures are a sure sign of a healthier garden.


Pests and Disease Management – Naturally

Not only will native plants provide food and shelter, but they will do another important job for you in the garden. They attract native beneficial insects, which will help you control pest issues. It may take a little while for them to arrive and get to work, but if you allow them that time, they will have a more powerful and far-reaching impact than any chemical treatment can provide.

Barbara and Eliot have acres of food and landscape plants, but they have little to no pest or disease issues. Barbara attributes that to working with Mother Nature rather than against. In addition to letting beneficial insects fight off the bad bugs, Barbara and Eliot also recognize that proactively focusing on the health of their soil and plants will reduce pest and disease issues naturally.

We all know that if we eat well, get enough sleep and exercise properly; our immune system and overall health will benefit. If we get run down, we are more susceptible to illness. The same is true in your garden. Plants will be more susceptible to attack by pests and disease if they aren’t healthy.

Rather than resort to chemical treatments which – just like those synthetic fertilizers – can do more harm than good; Barbara and Elliot use manual pest controls. They would rather pick, wash or even vacuum (that’s right – vacuum, like with a shop vac!) the pests off than to utilize chemicals which can harm the soil and the beneficial creatures in their gardens and landscape.

Another manual control: Floating row cover. During the early part of the season when flying pests are buzzing around and looking for spots to lay their eggs, floating row cover prevents the pest from landing on your crop. No eggs laid – no pests to hatch.

That’s not to say they never experience pest or disease damage. They do. We all do. The point is that our plants don’t need to be pristine. It’s better to suffer a little damage, while doing our best at natural and proactive management rather than chase perfection with chemicals which always carry a price of unintended consequences.


Four Season Farm landscape

Barbara and Eliot make a point to leave spent plant material in place through the winter months at Four Season Farm, in part to provide important habitat for over-wintering beneficial insects and other wildlife.


Your garden doesn’t need to be perfect. It needs to be healthy. So, go easy on yourself. Take advantage of these natural processes which will result in more robust soil, a richer ecosystem and more resilient and productive plants.

If you haven’t already listened in to my conversation with Barbara, you can scroll to the top of this page and press the Play icon in the green bar just under the title to hear more stories from Barbara about life on the farm. You’ll also hear her describe how she uses that shop vac to manage pests too. And stay tuned, Barbara’s husband Eliot will be joining me in just a couple of weeks while I get his take on four-season gardening. I guarantee you won’t want to miss that one either.

Links & Resources

Episode 041: Small Space Garden Design

Episode 043: Raised Bed Gardening, Pt. 2: Perfect Soil Recipe

Episode 048: The Simple Science Behind Great Gardening, with Lee Reich

Episode 045: Succession Planting: Practical Tips For Growing More Food

Episode 051: How to Grow Bountiful Blueberries – Key Steps with Lee Reich

Episode 071: Gardening for Wildlife: How-to Create an Inviting Habitat, with NWF’s David Mizijewski

Episode 077: The Beauty and Importance of Native Plants: The Ethos of Mt. Cuba Center

Episode 079: Foodscaping: How to Create an Edible Landscape, With Brie Arthur

joegardener Newsletter

joegardener Facebook

joegardener Facebook Group

joegardener Instagram

joegardenerTV YouTube

joegardener Twitter

Growing a Greener World Episode 220: Gardening for the Hungry

Growing a Greener World Episode 425: Four Season Garden


Season Premier! Episode 801: A Year in the Life of the Garden Farm; Part I

The Garden Primer, by Barbara Damrosch

Four Season Farm

Ample Harvest

Mt. Cuba Center

Milorganite® – Our podcast episode sponsor and Brand Partner of

About Joe Lamp'l

Joe Lamp’l is the creator and “joe” behind joe gardener®. His lifetime passion and devotion to all things horticulture has led him to a long-time career as one of the country’s most recognized and trusted personalities in organic gardening and sustainability. That is most evident in his role as host and creator of Emmy Award-winning Growing a Greener World®, a national green-living lifestyle series on PBS currently broadcasting in its tenth season. When he’s not working in his large, raised bed vegetable garden, he’s likely planting or digging something up, or spending time with his family on their organic farm just north of Atlanta, GA.

0 Responses to “086-Timeless Gardening Principles, with Barbara Damrosch”

  • Forrest Jones says:

    Joe, I used to double dig too. After my daughter told me about Ruth Stout’s practices I started to bury my garden beds and paths with leaves in the fall to keep the weeds from sprouting in spring. Then I would remove them to the compost pile in May. But I would still dig then. Now after learning the no til method from you and your guests I just pull those leaves back enough to plant and reuse them to mulch in place or for compost. It really saves time for other tasks. I only needed to look at my 60 to 80 foot tall trees next to the land that I cleared years ago as proof that tilling was not necessary. That woodland has never been tilled and the top soil is shallow and full of rocks. But it is self supporting by the leaves and dead wood that fall every year.Having said that though I have to say that when I was a young boy the men that had the most productive gardens in the neighborhood were double dig guys. They were the men with broken English, immigrants or 1st generation Americans. So I can’t help but think that there is something to that double digging. But I like the time savings of no til. Maybe the double dig is great for drainage and aeration or whatever secret those men had more than made up for stirring up that soil.I remembered that GGW show with Barbara and Eliot. They are inspiring and I am going to watch that again soon. Thanks for sharing your tips and experience Barbara.

  • Denise says:


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